UPDATED=I DON'T Want to Spend Xmas with My Ex Again!!!!

If ex wants Christmas Eve AND Christmas morning, do you have a problem with Emmy J. spending the night at dad's and then having the rest of the day with you? If ex's parents want to see Emmy on Christmas they should do that on Christmas eve or morning and no going back to Ex's house at the end of the day. And you should alternate Thanksgivings.

wow, that must be exhausting. plus it cannot last long because most likely he will have a girlfriend in no time, and then what? You need to have a signed agreement with him. Most divorced couples swap holidays, as in you get her for thanksgiving this year, he gets her for christmas, and then swap holidays next year.

Whatever you do, DON'T let him have her every Christmas Eve and bring her home on Christmas morning!!! It shouldn't matter how adamant he is, you should BOTH be taken into account when it comes to the schedule. I did this for years, then it dawned on M., I missed ALL the sleepy eyed, little kid excitement of her seeing what "Santa" brought on Christmas morning, I didn't get to make her Christmas morning pancakes, or sit on the couch with hot chocolate on Christmas Eve trying to stay up waiting for "Santa"...I was more than a little sad. I ended up telling her Dad I couldn't do it anymore, I told him to keep her that year for both days and I would get her for New Years, then the next year I get her for Eve/day and he gets her for New Years...we also switch off for Thanksgiving, but that's more up to her, ski season opens on Thanksgiving day and they are both avid snowboarders, so she usually goes with dad to open the slopes.

I did spend Christmas morning at her Dads house this last year, he doesn't have a GF and my BF is stationed in CA (he was spending Christmas with his kiddos, so he couldn't come home), it was the first year neither of us had a sig other present for the holidays...my daughter told her Dad she hated the thought of M. being alone on Christmas morning so she decided we'd all spend it at his house...it was OK, a little odd, we've not done anything joint like that for years...we'll get together for her b-days but there's usually a bunch of other people there too, it's never been J. the three of us. He and I have a great relationship, but it still felt a little odd...

I think it's more of a question if you can be without her on Xmas Eve or Xmas morning.

If I had a choice, I would put up w/the ex & not want to be w/o my child.

But it's up to you.

If you have a choice, then you can make the decision.

One more caviat to throw in.....what is best for your daughter?
What would she like to do?

If she would like a repeat of last year then here are my suggestions:
-you don't worry about $ from the ex & J. take it upon yourself to make
your little girl happy. Would she be happier w/you?
-if you keep things exactly as they were last year you could:
plan a little differently (wrapping your gifts way ahead of time)

don't exchange gifts w/boyfriend until alone (earlier in eve or later) etc.

If your dtr really doesn't mind going over there then split the Xmas & Xmas Eve.

i think you are letting him railroad you. you are not together. you are not family any more. why are you spending holidays together????

he can have christmas eve, bring her home to go to bed, then you get christmas day.

i agree. he seems to always get what he wants. to change that...you'll have to change it. venting to us won't change it, you'll have to put your foot down. i don't get this arrangement or the need for it.

Personally, I think it's a nice arrangement. I think it's fantastic that she gets to spend Christmas morning with all of her parental figures (your boyfriend included!).
It seems like what needs to give is all the running around you do afterwards. Emmy gets to open Santa's gifts with all of you and a few more. Then your EX can leave. You guys need to spend a good bit of the day AT HOME so Emmy can keep opening presents from you and your boyfriend and actually play with them. You need to pick ONE other place to go later in the day for a few hours and leave it at that. You can go to your family's place one year and your boyfriend's the next. When you have a family of your own, you have to develop your own traditions with your kids, let them enjoy being home and relaxing with their new stuff!
I think this is such a great thing for your daughter, something that she will really cherish when she becomes an adult and can really appreciate how much her parents cared about HER on Christmas. You guys are doing the right thing!

This is only my opinion, but here's what I'd do.

If he gets Thanksgiving, I get christmas day. Either that or we'd switch each year for both holidays.

He gets Christmas Eve:
He does early Santa gifts, as many other split families do. He buys and pays for his own gifts and wraps them too, including HIS Santa gifts. He can take his daughter to HIS family himself if he wants them to see her, on or before Christmas Eve. It is not your job. His family, his responsibility. His holiday with his daughter has nothing to do with you, as your holiday with your daughter has nothing to do with him. He brings her back to your house that night on an agreed time. There's no rule that says he can't read Twas the Night Before Christmas at his house and you can read it again at yours. Cookies and milk at your house. He can drop her off at the door and kiss her there. No need for him to come in and make a big production with putting her to bed and all that.

You both stay cordial.

You get her Christmas day:
You have Christmas morning with your daughter and do your traditions. You visit your family if you wish. Visiting your boyfriend's family isn't mandatory as it's not your daughter's family until/unless you get married and you become a unit.

Other options are to visit your family on Christmas Eve or the weekend before with your daughter. Same with boyfriend's family.

I suggest not mixing you and your ex's families and time anymore. He gets his day, you get yours, period. No more mixing. This happens all over with divorced/separated couples.

It may be best if you switch off holidays if it's very important that your extended families see your daughter right on Thanksgiving and Christmas day. This would have to be something you both have to decide. I think down the road as your daughter gets older, and each of you decide to remarry that things will get too complicated if you keep mixing together your holidays. What if you don't care for your ex's new wife? With blending your holidays you'll have to accept her or fight over changing things yet again. As it is, you and your boyfriend are uncomfortable and can't do what you need to do. Your daughter isn't and can't be the only concern here.

K. B
mom to 5 including triplets

My answer is that when a home is broken & a child is involved, your idea of what you think a perfect holiday needs to change, and you need to flexible. If you are on cordial terms, then yes, it involves sometimes spending a holiday in your ex's presence. I think it's easier on the kids to do it together, than to cut visits short & cart them back & forth.

DH & I used to spend Christmas morning with his son when he lived with his mom & it worked out really well. We've even done Thanksgiving with the ex and her SO, with our DD, and my stepson, and I think it's a really great thing, to be mature enough to do something like that.

I J. really think it's time to worry about what your DD is feeling & what she wants than how your BF, who is a grown adult, feels, or yourself.

As far as being exhausted - we're all exhausted from a holiday, so one extra stop isn't what the issue really is.

If you're really bent on separating things, why can't she J. wake up at his house, open presents there, stay until mid morning, then come to your house? In that morning time, you & your BF can do your Christmas thing & you will still have time to spend with DD & everyone else. Flexibility is your friend.

My children are grown and my head swims with this back and forth thing.
Let him have her Christmas eve. Don't wrap his gifts he has to do that and he can give them to her then. As far as Christmas morning, no more unless it is his year to have her.

You guys are not married any more and you need to draw some lines or boundaries in the sand. Spell them out and cross the "t" and dot the "i". If the judge asks about them explain them matter of factly with no emotion. If you don't he will have her and he will control you even though you are not married any more and ruin your relationship with your boyfriend.

I would not want my ex in my house on Christmas morning boyfriend or not.

Good luck to you.

The other S.

PS Time to cut the cord(s).

Your doing way to much. I would make him wrap what he gets and then bring them over. I would have him show up around noon to open Santa presents. I would not go to ex's parents anymore. If he has her on the eve. He would not get her on xmas. He can come over but not stay long. It is what it is.....time to start own traditions.

I don't get when divorced (or no longer together) couples still spend holidays "together for the kids". Prior to getting divorced in AZ, you are required to separately go to a parenting class. They tell you, DO NOT do bdays/holidays together. Keep everything separate. Mostly because its confusing for the kids and secondly, who the hell wants to hang out with their ex??!! Both my husband and I do this with our ex's. We have 2 bdays and holidays for the kids. One at our house with us, one with him at his house. As far as the holidays go, we each do every other holiday. On the years I don't have them on thanksgiving, we have our dinner on the weekend before, or we go out to eat during the weekday, it doesn't matter what day, only that we celebrate when we are together. Surprisingly, Santa delivers presents to the other parents house too! So they open them when they get to that house. TRUST M. when I tell you that you daughter can feel the tension between all of you, it is NOT helping her. When you make new paperwork, be VERY specific and make sure you say things like, "child will spend christmas eve with mother from 8am until 8pm every even year". (then father will have odd year). Also, make sure there is a sentence that says, "receiving parent to pick up child". So there is no fighting about who is going to get her and when. If its your parenting time, then you come and get her (receive her) or I will keep her. You guys are being civil now, but if you are going to refile, be very, very specific. Also add a sentence along the lines of, "if parents disagree on schedule, mom has final say in odd years, father in even". I could go on and on. We have paid over 24k in attorney fees the last 3 years thanks to his ex wife so we have learned the hard way. Good luck.

First , let M. say that even if your daughter doesn't seem to care if he is there, it matters in the end...she will remember. It's great that he wants to be there for those moments.
Second, let M. ask why you couldn't give your gifts to each other (you and bf)? and why couldn't your bf give his gifts to your daughter? It's Christmas morning, you do your thing and if he's not comfortable with that he will decide not to be there.
Third, if your ex has your daughter out and brings her back for bedtime on Christmas Eve...why can't you wrap the presents (in your bedroom or a spare room and leave them there until after she is in bed)? Since you have admitted you wait until the last minute then he really isn't the cause of that.

It's ok if you want to say you want your private time w/ her but if you do, remember that may mean that you have to start rotating so every other year he has her to himself Christmas Eve. That is what is often decided in court unless the two parties have a different agreement (like one always gets Eve and the other always gets the Day). See what you can agree to before court because that will be more managable then what some judge decides for you.

Let M. also say to always do what is best for your daughter, even if inconvenient for you or him and even if it isn't what she thinks she wants (she's still a child and we as parents have to make unpopular decisions now that they will only appreciate when they are grown).

Typically Christmas is exhausting for all parents. If you're still married, it means you don't have all Xmas eve to prepare. You have to do it all AFTER the kids are in bed. So you have a leg up. Then your ex coming back Xmas morning doesn't require more work for you at all. The rest of your day sounds fairly typical though again, lots of moms are hosting lots of family which means cooking and it sounds like you don't have to do that. Does Emmy also spend Xmas night at your ex's? If so, that could be time for you and your boyfriend. In general, holidays are super busy for parents and exhausting. I think it's very nice if Emmy has her dad there. It may seem like she doesn't care but I bet she does.

Aghhhh, a Christmas question already.

I divorced when my daughter was four and I would be so sad if we were not all together on Christmas morning. My daughter (now almost 19) loves that we can all be together on Christmas morning (and many other times) because we really are still a family. It's a shame Emmy is more concerned about presents, I get that she is five but being with her dad is very important now and in the future. Hopefully she will appreciate the important things later.

You and your boyfriend have lots of time to exchange gifts, even his to Emmy (like when you spend the rest of the day with your boyfriend's family)

Do you swap holidays? This year you get her for Thanksgiving he gets her for Christmas.. next year swap?

Seems like it would be easiest for HER. Not all of the emotional drama..

This is how my sister and her ex handle it. The kids get the whole time in one place and know that it swaps out the following year.

This is their normal. At each place they have their traditions depending on the parent. They do call the other parent during these holidays..

My sister freaked out the first 2 years.. Then started enjoying going away for the holidays with her boyfriend. Or she would host fancy dinner parties for her single friends.

She changed HER attitude and it made her life easier.

I think if he INSISTS on having her Christmas eve, then you get her---to yourself---Christmas day. That's the fair thing.

Part of the reality of divorce is that many traditions have to change. It isn't practical to think that you can continue to do EVERYTHING as one family when the dynamics have changed so significantly.

Your schedule of visits for the holiday seems overwhelming, not J. for you, but I'm also thinking of what your daughter must feel like with all of that traveling and back and forth. Your daughter will be fine if she opens the presents Santa leaves at her dad's house at her next scheduled visit. Do not make her go back to dad's on Christmas night. It's too much! Kids need down time, too, and the current schedule is J. too overwhelming.

Buy your presents separately. Then, he can't use that as an excuse to try to get you to let him come over Christmas morning. Let her know ahead of time that Santa will be delivering some presents to Mom's house and some to Dad's.

Don't be afraid to ask for what is in the best interest of your child. You may not get everything you want in your new custody agreement, but if you don't ask for what you want, you'll end up with the schedule you already have or worse.

Best to you and your family,

J. F.

In most cases the holidays are switched every other year so you might want to start getting used to that idea. He would take her for Christmas one year and you'd have the entire eve and day free. She would most likely leave around 5pm on Christmas Eve and then come home around the same time on Christmas Day.

Then the next year you would have her the opposite, even if it is your time to have her. That makes it fair and that is why kids of divorced families have more than one holiday celebration. There is no reason to have him in your home during any holiday's. He should have her for the whole holiday every other year.

My brother is in Indiana, and they have parenting guidelines that specify holiday arrangments. On alternating years, one parent gets Christmas Eve until noon Christmas Day, and the other parent gets Noon - 9pm. Christmas day. Then the child is returned to whoever has the child during that part of the holiday break, which is a whole separate nightmare to figure out. I've been living my family Christmas' by Indiana parenting guidelines (and having to travel to IN for Christmas) for about 19 years now ... first with his step-son, and now being divorced with his own kids. I can tell you, the years where you J. get to be with the child from noon - 9p.m. kind of suck. Does PA have any specific parenting time guidelines? If so, you may not have many options, and you may not like what you get stuck with as your time.

For my stepdaughter we do every other year. So in odd years we have her for Thanksgiving (through noon the day after Tday) but not Christmas. In the following even years we have her for Christmas (through noon the day after) but not Thanksgiving. She's never complained about the arrangement. Kids adjust fast for the most part. My husband likes the arrangement too and prefers the uninterrupted time. It gives him plenty of time to plan trips or driving to different family functions without rushing around like a headless chicken. Besides like you said the kids want to focus on presents and/or family gatherings not on being shuttled back and forth. Finally he has to do all the driving for both pick up and drops. Since she lives an hour away one way that's too much time spent driving.

As for spending actual time with his ex, let's put it this way. In four years I've met his ex four times and shared air space within 5 feet for less than 5 minutes total in all of those glorious meetings. So that's a big heck no to having her in our house or vice versa. -itchiness is not a state of mind. It is a way of life with her. No thanks. I can ruin my holidays all by myself and with far less drama. Good luck in deciding your new arrangements.

If I had to spend Christmas morning with my ex I would have long since poisoned his coffee!

Christmas eve has always been my big thing and Christmas day, not morning, has always been his big thing. Even though we switch I would love to make it the same every year.

Anyway in my perfect world I would have them every Christmas eve, they go to bed wake up open gifts and then go to their dad, lather rinse repeat. It would be fun to spend more time with them on Christmas but that would be greedy. That and I would much rather give up the rest of the day than having to deal with my ex when I am trying to be happy.

Sounds like you need to start alternating holidays. If he wants xmas eve, then you get the day, without him there, no visiting his parents either, unless you personally want to see them. He gets every other thanksgiving, you could alternate that one with Easter. He wouldnt get her every time. You J. need to put your foot down, good luck sounds like he is used to getting his way.

He has to decide - either xmas eve or xmas day. Why should he get both?

And I don't see why you can't exchange gifts with your boyfriend when he's around. He's the one choosing to be there - if it's uncomfortable, then let him leave. Same with your bf's gifts for Emmy - if ex doesn't like it, he can stay home!

If he won't agree to stay away xmas morning, have the new arrangement specify that on even numbered years he has her on xmas eve until whatever time on xmas day and on the odd numbered years you have her on xmas eve until whatever time on xmas day and then she goes to his house for the balance of xmas day. Or however you want to work it but make sure there is something in the papers about this. You are getting along now, but that doesn't mean that five years from now you will be getting along. Better to have everything spelled out.

I don't have an ex, so I can't speak from direct experience, but it does sound to M. like you're giving in on too many things.

Why do you allow your ex time on Christmas Eve, Christmas morning and then AGAIN Christmas night for more presents? Even after taking your daughter to see HIS family for dinner? That's ridiculous.

I think it's worth it for your daughter to have her father around at Christmas, and to visit with her paternal grandparents, but something's gotta give.

If your ex insists on Christmas eve, let him have it, and then offer ONE other time to get together on Christmas day, or suggest he get another entire day to spend with her, J. after the holiday. Ever heard of Boxing Day?

I'd suggest either Christmas morning OR Christmas dinner with his family. Then spend the rest of the time with your immediate and extended family, not his. Maybe roll both events into one by inviting his family over for brunch so he can have "morning presents" and his family gets to spend time with their granddaughter too.

Even if you give in and let him come over for Christmas morning and also take your daughter to his parents house for dinner, tell him to bring anything Santa left at his house, over to his parents for dinner. There's no reason to make an extra trip on an already crazy.

And WTH! Why are you wrapping presents your ex buys for her? That's messed up. He needs to grow up and start taking care of his own relationship with his daughter. If "Santa" is too lazy to wrap presents and have them waiting under the tree in the morning, that's J. too bad. You're not his wife/partner anymore. He can make up some story about how Santa's GPS told him to leave the presents at Grandma's house, knowing she'd be there for dinner...

And despite my rant, I do think it's important to remind yourself that's it's a good thing that he wants to spend so much time with his daughter. Some ex's can't handle it and disappear completely... that said, there's something in what you've written that pegs him as needing to control you in this situation as well.

I mean, why wouldn't you exchange gifts with your boyfriend in front of him? It's your home and he has to deal with your life and how it's changed from when the two of you were together.

I hope this helps. Stay strong and hang in there...

Oh M. and my ex have had our share of fights. Getting it in writing is a good idea. But our deal was always we switch out you either take her the evening before through 1p the next day and then the other parents gets the kid. So for xmas if I have her xmas evening I have her all evening until 1p on Christmas then he gets her and vice vera when we switch. That way she gets to enjoy with both parents but we do not need to spend that much time together. He should not be allowed to be that controlling that he can come tuck her in and share your time with her . He is trying to push his way in and keep control. Start start a yelling fight but J. get it separated so you can get on with your life.

If he's got presents santa left at his house for her there is no reason I can see for him being there to get into them at your house. You might want to ask her what she wants. That is if she's old enough to really give an opinion. But if it's important to her to have him there I say so it. But if she don't care tell him deal. He wants her christmas eve so you get her christmas day that's it!

Good luck and God Bless!

That schedule is beyond crazy. If he is adamant on having her on Christmas Eve night, why the heck do you have to bring her back to his parents house on Christmas Day? Seems like he is being friendly because he is calling all the shots? You are not out of line to ask him to bring her back on Christmas morning and not stay. Stand your ground so you can enjoy the holiday too.

My thought was to switch holidays--one Turkey Day he gets her and gets Christmas eve only that year, the next year, he doesn't get her Turkey Day (but maybe gets Sat-Sun of that weekend) and gets Christmas Day.

I don't have an ex, but I do have demanding relatives, and that is what worked out for us.

And I do think you are giving up too much. Your family (boyfriend, you & Emmy) deserve together time/special time on the holidays, too.