Need Helpful Advice on 2 1/2 Y/o Crying

J.,

All I can say is - ughhhhhh..... I was in your shoes, until I decided that it wasn't worth it. There isn't enough money to put up with it, having your children exposed to (will eventually do damage to them), etc... OBVIOUSLY- she is spoiled rotten at home. And form 1 to 8. Those are the serious PARENTING hours! The harder ones. Makes me wonder if the mom (or whoever) handles the easy time, then gives her to you for the real parenting time. I cannot imagine the pay being worth it. But on the other side- what a great price to pay to have someone else deal with the real life meltdowns. You do have a problem on your hands!! This is something I would write out, think about how to say- very carefully to the parent(s). Of course how you tell them- depends on whether you are willing to deal with it, or if you are completely finished with the kid (sounds like you are not.) Whatever way you go- do them the favor of not leaving out any details. Maybe put it in a letter and have a sit down with them, and discuss it afterwards. Or initiate a talk, and tell them whats up. If you are like me, I forget the details, so a letter would go along with sitting and talking about it. Not a brief 5 minute talk either. It is a very serious matter. If you want the continued business, and are willing to work on it- make CERTAIN the parent(s) totally understand what you are saying and what you advise. They may feel like you are crossing the line when you tell them just how disruptive it REALLY is. Someone has got to tell them. At this point, I would bet that the parents think their child is like all the others at this age. I would also bet that one or both of them are not willing to battle this child when it comes to discipline and teaching them right from wrong, and rules etc.... thus- creating the monster who rules/is ruining your life. Consider video taping the fits- and make sure you get the other kids reaction and your own reaction- so they can see how they need to be addressing these issues. You could show them the clip in case they ACT totally surprised!

Also- a really great tool- as many of us mothers know- is to watch "SUPER NANNY!" SUGGEST to them that their whole family watch it. It is especially important to have the kid(s) watch too. Jo, the nanny, really deals wonderfully with these cases and has so many ideas this family can "take home" with them- so to speak. I, for one, was not willing to do ALL of the parenting for the child whose parents wetre not willing to go through the tough parts of parenting and discipline, so I ended the childcare for the kid. (Now my monster is in kindergarden and in trouble everyday- parents meeting with the teacher & principal regularly, kid eating alone because she is always in trouble, sitting with the principal during the day because she is too disruptive to the entire class.) A real nightmare! I am friends with her father, so i am kept posted, and I do watch her for an hour here or there- as a favor to him. He does a lot for me (fixing problems around my home- garbage disposal, dishwaser etc....) So I do feel a little obligated, but no serious time. My child doesn't like the other kid due to obvious reasons, but I force her to try to get along with her for an hour here and there. It is a good thing that he has other friends who don't have the courage to tell him the truth about his monster. The good thing is they have started to take responsibility for the problem, realize that the one who is suffering the most is the kid, and they have her in counseling now. The child was adopted as a drug baby, now has an abusive mother without maternal instincts, been trough a very nasty divorce with this horrible mother and abused. So it is easy to see where this monster gets her fuel. But is is incredibally sad to see her having a rough time trying to figure out life. if only the parents would have taken it seriously when I brought it to them years ago. I cannot see how she will be allowed to go to the 1st grade. They7 are teachers and NOT baby-sitters in school. I am trying to counsel the hilc to get her to understand that her actions belong to her, and she is the only one who can change them. I let her know that no one wants to be around her or likes her when her behavior is such, but that she is a very loving girl, who has a lot to work on. She knows she is loved. When you are a sitter (or a friend who watches her for small time frames- in my case), it is difficult to be tender with them- but I manage because I know how horrible her mother is and that she has FINALLY started counseling- and I only have one hour!!

It will only be a matter of time until YOU decide that if they are not serious about a solution, and sticking to their guns, then it will negatively affect your own memories of raising your OWN CHILDREN. The time will have been compromised with the monster, and that you will seriously regret. Hopefully the parents will get on board, and will crack when you bring it up. It might be emotional- the parent admitting that they are at their witts end and don't know what to do. Tell them to watch SUPER NANNY- either on TV, or if they are like me, I miss the shows because I am busy, so I watch it online at www.abc.com. (free episodes)they could use to watch all of the episodes available. My daughter still really watching the show. I used to threaten that we would call Nanny to come to our house to get our family RIGHT- and that did the trick. LOL...

Good luck with your situation. For the sake of the monster child- hopefully her parents will take contol of this far gone situation, and give the child a chance at happiness-and happiness for themselves too.

God Bless,

A.

My guess is that she is getting positive reinforcement for this behavior elsewhere. My son throws fits like that, especially if my husband is home but not around to get him to come running. I have more or less broken my husband of the bad habit of running in. I told him that if he is having a fit about something serious, I will call him. Unfortunately, my son still does this at least once on a daily basis. As we all know it is much more difficult to break a bad habit than it is to create one.

I don't know if you have to watch this child. I also know from personal experience how hard it is to tell a mom who is depending on you that you can't watch her kid anymore. But, my concern in your place would be what impact it would have on my family and if your girls will start acting this way.

Good luck!

OK, so she is a normal 2 year old. Try giving her choices; you want green beans or peas. But some things you just hve to be firm and show her you are the boss. If you have a playpen set it away from the other girls sleep area and put her in it when she has a tantrum. Leave her until she calms down and apologizes, this may be 10-15 minutes. Things like spitting, hitting, not minding.
You are not her slave, so putting her cup in the fridge is not an option. It stays out until lunch is over or snack is over, unless it is just water then it just stays out until it is gone.
If she is violent or extremely loud, a swat on the bottom (not to hurt her) is a great attention getter. It calms a child and lets them know you are serious. Then calmly tell her what you want of her; any argument and she goes into the playpen. BE CONSISTENT!
Let the Mom know what you are doing and ask that she follow the same guidelines.

Have you talked to her parents? I would not put up with that. It sounds like they let her have whatever she wants and gets away with it. I would ask them how they deal with it at home. If they don't and just give in than I would ask them to find a new sitter or help you to work with her to behave and she can't have whatever she wants. How is that helping her as she gets older? She isn't going to always get what she wants in school. If you want to keep watching her, than I would make some rules for her to follow and use things she wants to reward her when she can behave, and take things away until she does. It sounds like it might be really tough at first but once she sees that you aren't going to give in than she will work to do better. It won't help you much if the parents aren't willing to help too (if that's the case at home).

I don't know if that helps, but I'm a mother of 3 and my youngest is 3yrs old and see gets upset too when she doesn't get something or one of her sibblings takes or does something that she wants...but she has a tantrum (which we ignor, or I put her in the corner) and then it's over. I will tell you that we have had a few 10-15mins time outs in the corner or on a chair. The 2min time out doesn't start until the crying stops. She also gives me a hug and now that she's older usually says sorry--I also ask her if she knows why I put her in timeout...and if she doesn't say anything, I tell her why...I don't know if it helps, but I want her to remember not to do that again, but like toddlers that isn't usually the way it works. Good luck.

A littl about me:
I'm a sahm of a 12yr son, 7yr & 3yr old daughters. I work part time at night to keep in contact with adults. I also sell MaryKay to help woman feel good about themselves.

I bet she's doing this with mama too. I once watched a little boys who was 2 and did the same thing. He stood in the corner by the door and screamed the whole time mama was gone. Thank God it was a one day deal. I was watching children for a corp meeting and he was never without mama. She took him everywhere. Even the other children tried to get him to play and stop crying. I told them to ignore him and when he saw how much fun we were having he would come back. He did. I think unless you have to have the income from watching this child I would tell the mother she has 2 weeks to find another sitter. It amazing that you probably can get by without it. Just tell her you have no ontrol over her child and she is disrupting the entire household.I bet she will loose sitter after sitter unless she can ansd does put her foot down with her. She's going to be running her house in a few years.

Hi, J., when you try to break a bad habit, it ALWAYS gets worse before it gets better. When the usual behavior doesn't work anymore, they ramp it up, hoping to get the result they want. That's why time out "doesn't work" for you. When she escalates, you cave. Time out WILL work, but you have to stand right there--SILENTLY--until the noise stops. You can use time out, or you can simply ignore the whole scene. I've had kids follow me from room to room because they wanted to make sure I was paying attention to their fit! Just take the other kids if you have to, and turn your back. This is the fastest way to break the behavior. Just remember, they escalate first, then when that doesn't work, they'll stop for awhile. They will always try again, but not with the determination of before, just to test. When you break this habit, you can help the parents---they obviously don't have Mamasource! (Maybe you could let her know about the website.)

I baby sat for a child like that once and her Mother told me to bust her butt. Of course I couldn't hit a child but I did have her believing I would and she mellowed out for awhile. Kids figure out how to manipulate us at a very early age and will continue too until you put your foot down. The little girl I watched ended up being put on drugs for her behavior problems shortly after her baby brother was born as she tried to sufficate him. Thank God her father was watching and caught her in the act. She is now 14 years old and still a hand full even with medication the Dr.s say she has some kind of defiance syndrome.Her Mother gave up the child and now she lives in a juvenile detention center with super strict rules and little to no freedom.Her Mom told me once she believed it was her fault because she never enforced disapline when she was a toddler.
Good Luck it sounds like you are doing the best you can with her but her Parents have to take charge as well.

It's all about control and wanting attention.

Let her know there are "new rules" at your house, and that (spitting, throwing food, kicking cups, etc.) is no longer acceptable at your house.

Keep in mind when you do time-outs, that it is 1 minute per age, so for her it's 2 actual minutes of sitting in time out from when she actually starts sitting in time out...all the times she gets out of time out don't count. Throwing a bigger tantrum doesn't count either. She's just raising the ante when she doesn't get her way or the attention she wants, and she's getting away with it.

I still remember when my mother would take me and my siblings to the grocery store. It was inevitable that at some point my brother would want something my mother woiuldn't want to get him. He'd throw himself on the floor and start kicking, screaming, and carrying on. My mother would just walk away and start going down the next ailse. (Of course this was 35 years ago when you could do stuff like that...) I asked her about it once (he's 4 years younger than me) she said she wasn't worried because she could still hear him and knew where he was. Once he realized he didn't have an audience, then he'd get quiet, realize nobody was around and then start saying, "Mommy??? MOMMMYYYYY??" He'd catch up to us, and that would be the end of that tantrum.

Even with my 5 year old - she'll start in, and I'll say, "Mommy doesn't do drama...I understand you're upset beecause you want the toy your sister's playing with, but she's younger than you and doesn't understand sharing yet."

Anyway - hang in there!

This sounds like it could have been our daughter if we weren't hard nosed about the temper tantrums. I think you are going to have a harder time than we have since it sounds like the parents likely also give in. What my husband and I have done is that a tantrum never gets my daughter her way. We have put her on the naughty spot and she stays there or gets put back there until the screaming stops. At times she has stayed there for 1-2 hours. I know that goes against what the experts say, but otherwise she got her way and the tantrum worked.
The other thing we have done is that she has a choice with the tantrum - do x or y happens. The y, which is usually much less desirable, has always happened if she doesn't stop the tantrum. This means we have left parties, restaurants, etc, but the other always happens. We do work with her, but the tantrums really never get her what she wants. My daughter is almost 3 now and the tantrums are pretty much over and she only really has them when she is tired. Most of the time if she even thinks about a tantrum all we have to do is mention the alternative and she stops. We have friends who gave in and their 6 year old child was still throwing tantrums. Good luck to you.

Hi, J.,

I'm late catching up on my Mamasource, so you probably have had enough answers, but I'll throw in my 2 cents because I dealt with this situation when I had a home daycare. (and I have 35 years of dealing with all kinds of children and behavior problems!)

As soon as Amy started, I'd give her a warning - "Amy, if you act out, I will put you in time out until you're ready to behave nicely." She wouldn't listen, of course, so I'd pick her up, put her in the Pack and Play, (which I'd emptied of any toys and moved into the center of the room so she couldn't reach anything) and then I'd leave the room. I'd remain calm and matter of fact. For the first couple days we did this about 10 times (she threw tantrums constantly!). She would scream louder at first, but then would grow tired after about 10 minutes and eventually stop altogether. One of the first times, she was in there for 20 minutes. As you can see, I'm not a firm believer of the one minute per year of age rule! :)

It took two weeks, but she finally got the message, and the tantrums stopped. They continued at home, because her mom couldn't stand to listen to her baby cry (good grief!) and would cave in. (Which is probably why it took two weeks to work) But Amy never did it at my house again! And at that age, children know very well where they can get away with things, and with whom. They know how to behave differently for different situations. So even if her parents won't do it at home, it may take you a little longer, but I bet it will work.

Good luck! I hope you find a solution soon!
J.

I also watch other people's kids in my home and I've had a couple of strong willed kids. I agree with the other mom's in that the "time out" timer doesn't begin until they are calm and doing time out in the manner you expect of them, which should be explained to them ahead of time, not while they are screaming at you (sometimes that can take awhile and they will actually sometimes scream harder for a bit before calming down - I had one child who would scream sometimes for almost an hour before calming down, just go in every 10-15 minutes and see if you can calm them down, if not, leave them for another 10-15 minutes). It is harder when you have younger ones trying to sleep through it all. If you can, find a time out place as far away from the sleeping ones as possible. It can take awhile, but once they figure out what the rules and consequences are at your home, she'll start behaving as you expect, even if the parents don't follow through at home. Children usually live up to what's expected of them, and they know exactly what they can get away with and with who (even at 2 yrs old). I think the most important thing to remember is consistency and following through with threats, if you say somethings going to happen if she acts a certain way, it needs to happen or don't use that as a threat or it will not work. It can be a hard age, but it does get better!!! :-)

When she throws these fits, is there other children around? Sometimes children do this for a show. The minute she starts, try putting her in a room by herself where there is no audience. When she stops crying, she can come back. If she starts up again as soon as she comes out, back in she goes. Alway's praise and reward good behavior! If you catch her doing something positive and showing good behavior shower her with praise. Is it possible this child isn't getting the attention she needs at home? I was in a similar situation myself. I cared for a 2 year old who would get very angry if he didn't get his way. Come to find out he was witnessing his mother being physically abused at home. I'm not saying this is what's going on in your situation. Sometimes, very young children act out because they don't know how to deal with their emotions they are having concerning other issues that are going on in their young lives. Have you talked to the childs mother about this? Does this child behave this way at her house? If so, how does her parents discipline this behavior? Maybe if you come up with some reward system, you will slowly start to see a chnge. Good Luck, T.